Race Report - Warwick Challenge Cup

[Mike_SS]

I took the FZR1000 (PJ) out for it's first run this weekend and Ray, a mate of mine, came along to ride the YZF750. The Warwick Challenge Cup was the first time bracket race meeting the club has run. Basically they had four qualifying groups based on engine capacity, Once everyone had qualified they sorted the pack out into six groups of eight and then spread the six groups over three grids. This was open to all bikes from 125GP to 1000cc Superbikes. To add to the interest the already short track (2.1km) was shortened another 500 metres due to unfinished resurfacing work. This made it a track configuration that nobody had ever raced bikes on before. Whilst it was short it turned out to be a lot of fun as it added a section faster than the front straight with a wickedly fast 4th gear kink half way down it

Report

Day 1 - Friday Track Day

After worrying about rain for the two weeks leading up to it we arrived at the track on Friday morning to find it dry and hot. Another mate of mine also came along on his newly built Ducati 748 to give it it's first run. With the three of us all on bikes we hadn't ridden before we decided slow and steady was the go. I went out in the first group and just spent the first session getting my head around the new track layout, the new bike and a new set of tyres. In the second session I was ready to start exploring the capabilities of the FZR and found it a bit heavy but fairly easy to ride. At the end of the second session they review everyone's times and re-arrange the groups if need be. Out of a field of 75 which was made up largely of road bikes with some race bikes as well I was 9th fastest so I was not unhappy with that. Ray was progressing slowly (as planned) and was a handful of seconds behind me. As the day went on I seemed to hit a wall and for every session my fastest laps were within half a second of each other. I was happy with the consistency but would have liked some improvement.


Day 2 - Saturday Qualifying and First Race

We had two qualifying sessions in the morning. In the first one I went a bit slower than on Friday. In the second one I went a little bit quicker. The competition was much stronger than Friday with some Superbike, Super Stock 600s and a bunch of 125GP bikes turning up. There were forty odd entries and a lot of really close times and I ended up 17th. This meant I had pole position on the second grid. This was very much luck of the draw the way it worked but I was very happy to be at the front of a grid. Half a second faster and I would have been on the back the first grid. Ray's times were still off a bit and he was front row in the third grid.

Race - 1

So with some excitement I headed out to start a race from pole. How good is this? I was on pole on a bike that was reportedly lightning off the line and I had two 125GP bikes and a 600 with me on the front row. The light went out and I got shot out of a cannon! It was great for the first 5 or 10 metres then the front came up and up further and up further until I had to back off just a smidge to avoid looping. This allowed the 600 to get the holeshot into turn 1 but from there it is a tight right at turn 2 and up a bit of a hill and I was all over him. I was keeping up with him fairly easily so I followed him for the first lap and then tried an inside move on one of the slowest corners. I realised the move was not going to work and could end in tears so I shut it down let him go through and lost some time getting back on line again. By now one if the 125 guys had got it wound up and because of my bad passing move he caught up and passed me, then I passed him, then he passed me, then I passed him etc. Man those things have some corner speed! Eventually he wore me down and got a bit of run. I was now in third and with two laps to go I got a bit greedy with the throttle coming out of a slow corner and around she went. Crap! Fairly nothing sort of crash really but bent the right handlebar and broke the right peg, front brake lever and clutch lever. (Still can't figure out how the clutch lever broke. There is not a scratch on the left side of the bike?)

Ray's Race 1 went a little better with a second place but then he got pinged for a jump start and got a 10 second penalty. He was happy though as he took a bit more off his time.

Some frantic phone calls followed to try and find some parts. I had a clutch lever and a peg but no brake lever or right handle bar. (Thanks ozzyfzr and sbutler for taking my calls). I knew some people who were coming up to the track the next day and got a selection of bars and a brake lever sorted to be at the track at 9:30 on Sunday morning.

Day 3 - Races 2, 3, 4 and 5

By the time I had got my parts and put them on I had missed Race 2 but was looking forward to doing the rest. The problem was now the bike wouldn't start. There was some sort of electrical problem and by now it was about 11:00 and I had been sweating away it in the sweltering heat for a few hours. I tried a few obvious things but no go so PJ was retired for the day. Ray had already done his Race 2 and we decided he would do one more and then I would do Races 4 and 5 on the 750.


Ray's Race 2

Feeling better and better on the 750 Ray trailed around in second for half the race and then took the lead and won by a fair margin. Then he was pinged for another jump start He was having all sorts of problems with the clutch on the 750 for some reason. Once again he was happy to bring his time down another second.

Ray's Race 3

Making sure he didn't jump the start this time Ray hit turn 1 in seventh position The old racer came out in him then and he put in a series of very consistent laps and worked his way up to the lead and went on to win the race.

My Race 4

Alright, no track time all day and not having ridden the 750 since last year I headed out to take up the pole position. Got half way around on the warm up lap and the bike stopped!! Gave all impressions of having run out of fuel but I knew it had 5 litres in the tank. Spent the race sitting on the side of the track in 35 degree heat. When we got it back to the pits we disconnected the fuel line from the carbies and cranked it over and nothing but air came out of the hose for a few seconds and then petrol? Hooked it back up and after some cranking it started up again?

My Race 5

Last race of the weekend and I hadn't finished one yet! Got to the start line OK and took up the pole position. Got an OK start (don't know what Ray's problem was ) and went into turn 1 fairly close on the tail of the 600. Then we hit the hill and I found out how much extra torque the 1000 had because the 750 just didn't pull anywhere near as strong and the 600 was pulling away. I spent the first few laps riding around in second and then was passed by two 125s so I finished fourth. I was happy to have finished a race and when I checked the times my best lap was 1 second slower than I did on the 1000 and 2 seconds faster than Ray's best so it wasn't bad.

Footnote -

1994 YZF750 v 1992 FZR1000 (PJ)

After riding both bikes on the same track in the same sweltering conditions I came up with the earth shattering conclusion that the best situation would be the 750's handling and 1000's grunt The 750 is no light bike by any means but it felt like a mini bike after riding the 1000. The torque of the 1000 made the 750 feel slow out of corners. The 1000 felt a bit lower and longer to sit on and I was continuously grinding away the footpegs (largely due to my poor riding style). I set out with a goal of deciding my direction for the year and I have to say it isn’t very clear at the moment. I will have to ponder over things for a few days....

(If you got to the end of this..well done:))

[FZRDude]

Time to stuff the thou in the 750?

Glad to hear that you and Ray had a stonking good time.

[ozzyfzr]

Excellent race report there Mike, glad you got to finish! Glad that Ray had a go too! is he hooked?
Regards
Ozzyfzr

[Mike_SS]

Glad that Ray had a go too! is he hooked?

I think so. We'll have a bit of think about and talk about which way the 'team' will go :

[kiwi60]

It was great for the first 5 or 10 metres then the front came up and up further and up further until I had to back off just a smidge to avoid looping.

I know this problem well....

I've found that 70hp is the perfect launch power (that's the big advantage of dynoing the bike - you know how much power it's making, and more importantly, where it's making it), it gets you off the line really quickly and with minimal wheel lift, but it does still come up.

I haven't tried a race start on the 1040 motor yet, but I think I may have an answer...

I've had a MPS Quick Change on the bike for several years, which cuts the ignition for up to 50 milliseconds and allows clutchless full throttle up shifts (totally legal in our pre'89 class as they were first developed in 1988 by MPS).
As soon as the wheel starts getting elevated just hook another gear, it won't bring the wheel down but it will hold it at the height where you made the shift and allow you to keep the advantage of the fast getaway.

[sbutler]

Glad that Ray had a go too! is he hooked?

I think so. We'll have a bit of think about and talk about which way the 'team' will go :

Easy!! keep going with plan "A"
Youve only had 1 run on the 1000 fix it & keep riding it. If you weigh both bikes the 1000 & 750 are near the same weight so there will be no point putting the 1000 motor in the 750 frame.

Stick with it Mike. I only ever touched the pegs when I wasnt on my game, so you may need to adjust your style. The 1000 is a winner, just a matter of getting it working for you. You'll be right..

[hotcam]

Great report
Good to hear about both bikes going in anger! Pity about the
difficulties but I'm sure you'll get them sorted...

GO TEAM EXUP

[spook]

Mike, great report and a good weekend as well by the sound of it. I wouldn't worry about the starts, or the minor problems (that's what it's all about!)

Race meeting aren't the best place to sort a bike or work on body placement on the machine etc. A few quiet low key practice days may be a way of getting to know the machine and yourself on it. The elects on PJ have given enough past trouble to warrant discarding of the standard loom and fitting Dr Ozzy's simple wiring solution.

Give PJ and yourself some time and enjoy Just my

[Mike_SS]

Easy!! keep going with plan "A"

Give PJ and yourself some time and enjoy

It's all good. I must have sounded a bit negative about the 1000. I havn't given up on it. I still went quicker on the 1000 the first time I rode it than I did on the 750 which I did quite a few laps on last year. The back to back comparison just highlighed the strengths and weaknesses of both bikes.

One of the things I need to think about is whether I put a big effort into reducing weight and fine tuning.

(Also, whilst I have no real complaints about the 1000 suspension at this stage, I have 'access' to a full white power suspension set up. Just one of the many things to ponder )

[sbutler]

Easy!! keep going with plan "A"

Give PJ and yourself some time and enjoy

It's all good. I must have sounded a bit negative about the 1000. I havn't given up on it. I still went quicker on the 1000 the first time I rode it than I did on the 750 which I did quite a few laps on last year. The back to back comparison just highlighed the strengths and weaknesses of both bikes.

One of the things I need to think about is whether I put a big effort into reducing weight and fine tuning.

(Also, whilst I have no real complaints about the 1000 suspension at this stage, I have 'access' to a full white power suspension set up. Just one of the many things to ponder )

Im in the same boat with the GSXR Mike. But I know that bike has been around the creek in high 1.39s. Will I ever be good enough to do that?? Who knows. But one thing for sure, I have to resist the urge to change things! I have to look at it this way & so should you.

The bikes are faster than you/me, so untill you/me are doing times in excess of the times the bikes have done, dont change a thing. If you are already faster on the FZR than you were last year on the YZF, & your not use to the bike yet, dont touch a thing.
As for me, I have to find 5 seconds, Im 5 seconds slower on the GSXR than on the FZR. So you can only get faster, I have to get there yet, & then get faster, [hopfully].

PS:: I have to agree with spook, a race harness would be a good way to save a little weight & eliminate future gremlins..

Oh PSS::: Might be time to look at using another brand of tyre, you have unloaded 3 bikes on the same brand of tyre?? Just a thought.

[Mike_SS]

Im in the same boat with the GSXR Mike. But I know that bike has been around the creek in high 1.39s. Will I ever be good enough to do that?? Who knows. But one thing for sure, I have to resist the urge to change things! I have to look at it this way & so should you.

The bikes are faster than you/me, so untill you/me are doing times in excess of the times the bikes have done, dont change a thing. If you are already faster on the FZR than you were last year on the YZF, & your not use to the bike yet, dont touch a thing.
As for me, I have to find 5 seconds, Im 5 seconds slower on the GSXR than on the FZR. So you can only get faster, I have to get there yet, & then get faster, [hopfully].

PS:: I have to agree with spook, a race harness would be a good way to save a little weight & eliminate future gremlins..

Oh PSS::: Might be time to look at using another brand of tyre, you have unloaded 3 bikes on the same brand of tyre?? Just a thought.

All sage advise Mr Butler. I think we secretly like the knots we tie ourselves into pondering over alll things racing

[sbutler]

All sage advise Mr Butler. I think we secretly like the knots we tie ourselves into pondering over alll things racing

Yeah we do tend to over think things a bit. You are way ahead of me though Mike. You are already faster on your new bike, Ive got some work to do, let me tell ya!

[JasonL]

I didn't realise how used to one bike you get until I a) bought the VFR400 and b) co-rode an FZR1000 at the One-Hour. Unless you're a freak, it takes most of us a good while to adapt to something else. But in the long run its good to race different stuff, I have become too used to the one bike, the 750 and its shaken me up a bit just riding the 400 as its a more competitive class and there's no hiding!

I am a big fan of getting as much weight off bikes as possible. Looking at my own FZR which is still some time away from regular track work, it has so much excess road gear and over-engineering the opportunity is there to get I'd say at least 25-30kg off it without going totally mad. Here's a very quick run down of some of the bigger weight savings I made on the 750:

Scooter battery 2.3kg
Lighter rims 3.5kg
Instruments 1.2kg
full system, shortened muffler 2.5kg
520 conversion 1.2kg
Misc brackets etc 1kg

So about 12kg and more to go. Plus the little things add up aswell, a few hundred grams on a handful of bits quickly yields 1kg and so on. But probably the biggest single area you can save weight is...you! I lost about 5-6kg in getting a bit fitter to race, the single biggest saving. Added in to all the road gear off aswell, the bike is easily lugging 25kg less already!

Having said all that, technique and consistency will still trump equipment. As Steve knows, we have guys in PCRA for example on the best kit that are pretty slow and just like to have a ride that isn't a track day, and then we have guys on pretty dubious dungers that are as quick as hell. I know everyone knows all this, I just felt like a welcome distraction from the dreary workday (its been a long off-season, I'm just under 3 weeks away from the first race of the season, I'm getting PMT - pre meeting tension)

[hotcam]

I didn't realise how used to one bike you get until I a) bought the VFR400 and b) co-rode an FZR1000 at the One-Hour. Unless you're a freak, it takes most of us a good while to adapt to something else. But in the long run its good to race different stuff, I have become too used to the one bike, the 750 and its shaken me up a bit just riding the 400 as its a more competitive class and there's no hiding!

I am a big fan of getting as much weight off bikes as possible. Looking at my own FZR which is still some time away from regular track work, it has so much excess road gear and over-engineering the opportunity is there to get I'd say at least 25-30kg off it without going totally mad. Here's a very quick run down of some of the bigger weight savings I made on the 750:

Scooter battery 2.3kg
Lighter rims 3.5kg
Instruments 1.2kg
full system, shortened muffler 2.5kg
520 conversion 1.2kg
Misc brackets etc 1kg

So about 12kg and more to go. Plus the little things add up aswell, a few hundred grams on a handful of bits quickly yields 1kg and so on. But probably the biggest single area you can save weight is...you! I lost about 5-6kg in getting a bit fitter to race, the single biggest saving. Added in to all the road gear off aswell, the bike is easily lugging 25kg less already!

Having said all that, technique and consistency will still trump equipment. As Steve knows, we have guys in PCRA for example on the best kit that are pretty slow and just like to have a ride that isn't a track day, and then we have guys on pretty dubious dungers that are as quick as hell. I know everyone knows all this, I just felt like a welcome distraction from the dreary workday (its been a long off-season, I'm just under 3 weeks away from the first race of the season, I'm getting PMT - pre meeting tension)

I agree with pretty much everything! I know I can lose at least
10kg off my FZR for $0, just by removing road gear, but I can afford
to lose maybe twice that off the rider LOL :cool and improve my
technique to the point where I can actually use all that. I thought I had
the FZR tapped flat out as fast as possible, but then I went to superbike
school and all of a sudden I realised my lines were just making
hard work for the bike. Now I have better lines and only 80% effort,
for a similar lap time. I have room to learn to use the potential
of the bike to 100% again, and a big gain in times...
It would certainly help reduce me getting passed by the old guys on the
BSA singles with the dustbin fairings...

[kiwi60]

And if you haven't done so already, ditch the alternator, starter and starter chain / clutch - that will save you several kg's of reciprocating weight, allowing the motor to spin up much quicker.

Not necessarily a good idea if your doing endurance events, but I can easliy get a full race day or a good track day (4 - 5 sessions of 20 laps each) out of one healthy battery, and it only takes a few minutes to swap batteries if it was needed

[JasonL]

And!.......not only is losing weight off you better for power-to-weight, being fitter makes a huge difference....my best lap times on the 750 at Oran Park for example since I started racing a couple of years ago have only come down by about 2.3 seconds despite having done a lot to the bike....but what is more telling is elapsed time - same number of laps per race but completing the race in a shorter time that's what matters. And it comes down to in the beginning, I was riding around quickly whereas now I am actually racing from flag to flag, a big difference in mindset.

As for how quick the 125's are in the turns Mike, that's the other big advantage of getting weight off - its not just power-to-weight ie: quicker in a straight line, but you can brake deeper and carry more corner speed, less wear on tyres, less effort on rider. I think for me the single biggest improvement I have made was getting the suspension sorted. And being fitter. I clearly remember jumping on the 400 for the first time and being shocked at how agile it was compared to the 750, and the 400's are not really that light anyway, probably still around the 162kg mark in race trim. Anyway, our event included the 125's and I was stunned by how deep they ran in, partly it was due to me still taking 750 lines - this is the challenge now, to learn how to ride the 400 properly, its a very different proposition to the bigger bikes. I still don't get on the gas early or hard enough. I still can't get my turn in points right. And so on - but that's the point I made earlier - it does your riding good to be on something your not familiar or comfortable with

[spook]

And if you haven't done so already, ditch the alternator, starter and starter chain / clutch - that will save you several kg's of reciprocating weight, allowing the motor to spin up much quicker.

Not only the loss of rotating mass, but also the rwhp gains as you have found yourself Kiwi. Probably up to 5 rwhp to drive all that stuff

It would certainly help reduce me getting passed by the old guys on the BSA singles with the dustbin fairings...

Some of those old guys are just plain mean

[sbutler]

I think we are getting off track a little here. Mike has a style issue IMO
The bike is plenty fast enough, as you know Jason, but getting faster isnt gonna help one bit if the rider is in a rut [style wise]. Leave things alone, "if it aint broke dont fix it" is my idea.
Mike has to change style, he is already faster than last year, that tells me the bike is faster, cant be anything else.
Now to make the best of that speed, Mike needs to have a look at whats happering.

Firstly:: Tyre choice could be a factor? he has dumped three bikes on these type of tyres.
Second:: Riding style? I think Mike needs to look at what he is doing that contributes to these getoffs. I all cases he has run out of tyre.
So put both together & the outcome will be the same. Crashing.
Address both issues [1 at a time] & I think Mike will become a very quick & reliable rider.
Then when that is fixed look for a weight loss program for the bike. I got over 20KGs off it, but without really going nuts there could be some more to take away. But not yet.

My hope for Mike is, that he enjoys the bike, as I did, & does well on it. There is nothing worse than comming home from the track with a broken bike!
He is off to a good start being faster than last year already. Tick that box.
Now just work out a couple of underlying issues & he'll be a winner!!!

[Mike_SS]

Great discussion going here guys

Here is my views and planned approach

Race meeting aren't the best place to sort a bike or work on body placement on the machine etc. A few quiet low key practice days may be a way of getting to know the machine and yourself on it.

so you may need to adjust your style

Having said all that, technique and consistency will still trump equipment

but then I went to superbike
school and all of a sudden I realised my lines were just making
hard work for the bike.

I am doing a coaching day and track day next month before the next race meeting. They will be 4 or 5 coaches and a maximum of 20 bikes so I should get some quality time. One of the coaches knows my style pretty well already because he is normally marshalling on track days and often races with us in Pre Modern on a wickedly fast Period 5 Suzuki 1100. We have already chatted about what I need to address so I am looking forward to getting into it.

I am a big fan of getting as much weight off bikes as possible

ditch the alternator

520 conversion 1.2kg

Did the 520 conversion already and will probably do the alternator and maybe replace the steel sub frame with alloy as these are fairly straigth forward jobs. Weight off has to be good

I've had a MPS Quick Change on the bike for several years,

Will definetely be looking into that.

But probably the biggest single area you can save weight is...you!

but I can afford
to lose maybe twice that off the rider

I am already a lightweight. I could probably gain a few kilos in the right places. Also worked on my fitness level a bit over the break. (Went from no exercise to some exercise ) I think it paid off as I was not as stuffed after the weekend as I used to be. (Still got to get off the fags though )

The bikes are faster than you/me, so untill you/me are doing times in excess of the times the bikes have done, dont change a thing

"if it aint broke dont fix it"

I know what you mean by this Steve but I think that, except for the freaks, selective enhancements can help make up a bit for less than an abundance of talent. Does that make sense?

Tyre choice could be a factor? he has dumped three bikes on these type of tyres

Thanks for reminding me I think at the moment that I don't want to introduce that as a varaible. I'll address my other issues and maybe then look at that.

My hope for Mike is, that he enjoys the bike

Absolutely loved the power. A real luxury being able to catch people on straights and up hills. I don't think I mentioned it before but I am also really impressed with the front brakes. Very powerful and good feel.

[kiwi60]

Not only the loss of rotating mass, but also the rwhp gains as you have found yourself Kiwi. Probably up to 5 rwhp to drive all that stuff Wink

Dam - shouldn't have mentioned that, sounds like I'll need every trick I can get if / when we bring the bikes over