Making Fiberglass Components

spook · Post by **spook** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:33 am

Is there any interest in the making of a set of race glass, from prepping, the origional plastics/ mould making/ and producing a set of plastics. I'm about to make a full set of race glass from scratch for my CBR929, and some bits for the FZ750. I can promise that it will be a long winded pictorial, that will take you through the process, and probably help you get to sleep at night... Apart from the itching, and the lung cancer that is

hotcam · Post by **hotcam** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:17 am

I've done it a little but it turned out pretty crappy, I wouldn't mind a few
tips from a pro.
Don't give yourself the cancer though if you can avoid it, and I've found
that CF is worth some extra $ over fibreglass just to stop the itching...
is it much extra $ for carbon these days??

(when I was a kid, we went on an excursion to a surfboard factory, and
I was given a small piece of fibreglass cloth... I put it in my pocket...
I itched for WEEKS)

Post by **Hooligan** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:52 am

yes, yes, yes, and yes. i have been looking for some good instructions on the subject as there are a few items i would like to do.

spook · Post by **spook** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:13 am

I was really interested in the number of views as an indicator of the threads worth. Cams positivism is a given, and a fine quality... I can't see any problem doing it other than you may find yourself looking at Honda fairings... not Yamaha all the time.

I've done a reasonable amount of this sort of work professionally, though, not enough to consider myself one. And it has been a couple of decades in fact

SO ALL INPUT IS WELCOMED................

Though i reckon what we will end up with is a demystification, of what is really a very simple, boring, time consuming, but a strangely painfull, and satisfying process.

Cam, the itching is a product of glass (like in the windows of your house) suspended in resin (dust) floating around in the workshop atmosphere, and settling on exposed skin. The little patch of woven roving in your pocket probably had little to do with your discomfort, more like what settled on the skin in that environment, and was introduced to your exposed pours was the subject of your discomfort.

I'm only going down this road because a local supplier, RaceGlass failed to acknowledge the set they provided me was erroneously engineered, and failed to rectify the problem. Pretty much how I started my current business 30 years ago... Needed to hire a trailer in Yarrawonga, but there weren't any....

Stay tuned, I'll keep it simple...

ozzyfzr · Post by **ozzyfzr** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:39 pm

I have been looking into this myself for a long time, found these of interest
http://www.motorcyclebuilders.net/forum ... d.php?t=85
http://www.motorcyclebuilders.net/forum ... d.php?t=83
http://www.motorcyclebuilders.net/forum ... d.php?t=88
http://www.motorcyclebuilders.net/forum ... d.php?t=44

Some very helpfull info
Regards
Ozzyfzr

spook · Post by **spook** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:16 pm

Those crazy clay modeling dudes (lol).

Right.... I figure it will be best for all of us if I start with something simple... it will be a front guard for the FZR750. I have already prepared it, in that I wasn't completely happy with its shape.

In the case of this guard, it is going to be a one piece mould, so its important that everything tappers away from the deepest point, so some filling was required. If there is insufficient tapper it will never release from the mould. Most moulds for complex shapes are at least 2 piece, meaning they are made in two halves and bolted together. The fiberglass is then layed up inside, and when it is cured the mould is un-bolted, separated, and pulled away from the finished product. The moulds for motorcycle helmets for instance would work in this way.

If we have success with this, and I'm not forced to fall on my sword in shame, we will progress to a more complex 2 piece item, dealing also with turning base fairings into functional patterns.

Here is a photo of the gaurd. It is now prepared, and painted in a two pack paint that is resistant to attack from the types of chemicals that we will be using.

I still need to purchase some tooling gel-coat and other bits and pieces so it may be a week or so before we get started. Cheers.

Stig · Post by **Stig** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:59 pm

nice finish on the mudder :cool

look forward to seeing this topic develop. May even have a go myself once its all been explained

Do you have any plans for videos to show various techniques?

kiwi60 · Post by **kiwi60** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:15 pm

Good on ya spook, I've tried my hand at fibreglassing a few times, but the results have been predicitably amateurish.

It would be great to get some carbon fibe info if your going to head that direction as well, just what's needed for a light weight race bike...

spook · Post by **spook** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:23 pm

Ummm Video??? I'll take photos so often you can put them together and make a moving slide show

No I don't think so Stig, I've watched a few 'how to videos' on u-tube etc and they are a bit boring, though good value... (the Bridgestone tyre changing one comes to mind...and it is to the point). I don't have the bandwidth either (mobile broadband)

Besides, process here is so time consuming that you would have to put a helmet on before you watched, in case you fell off the chair and hit your head when you passed out due to boredom

And thanks for the manuals from the dump Stig, the YZF750 (OWO2) yec kit manual is one of my favorites, so thanks!

I promise I'll take enough shots for it to make sense, and if it is found to be useful I'll cover a few projects of varying degrees of difficulty.

One of the reasons I like doing this, is that it actually keeps me motivated, and I've been inspired by others here who share their projects and information here on the brotherhood. I'm starting my engine rebuild shortly, and the info here from various people, will make the job 1000% easier

kiwi60 wrote:Good on ya spook, I've tried my hand at fibreglassing a few times, but the results have been predicitably amateurish.

That may be the case here yet Kiwi! You know, carbon isn't (that) much lighter (you may save maybe 100-200 grams per square meter), it's just tons stronger, and stiff... it's amazing. I think epoxy resin is one of the things that will really add to the quality and strength of the finished product.

Polyesters are mono linked, like matches end on end, where as epoxies are complexly cross linked, and that where a lot of the strength comes from to a degree... Hell... the things you remember, I did a course at RMIT 30 years ago with the aerospace guys (lol).

Carbon certainly looks the business, and with epoxy will hold up tons better if you bin it. I'm going to do the guard in that manner. I was down at the PowerBronze guys house on Friday, and the carbon stuff he had there was wet layed up, with an outside carbon layer and an inside one of normal fiberglass. The finished product was excellent.

All the mould work will be done in polyester, so you will get to see them both used. In relation to the finish on the mud guard, the better the finish on the item your going to use for the mould (pattern) the better the finish on the item that comes out of the mould. Cheers.

gane · Post by **gane** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:06 pm

Spook, Old KZ's and CB's have a large following. and side covers are in high demand. oe bits usually Ebay for @ $100.00 each intact. both have had cheep plastic repo s done for eon's but who wants to put quality paint on a turd which requires dzuse fittings? I'm certain either Carbon fibre finish or just industrial weight moulded glass repro's would have a market. G

spook · Post by **spook** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:29 pm

Cheers Gane, we'll get the guard made first, then see how we go

I've got that much stuff I want to do for myself I'll probably be sick of it by the end!

There is an old saying "Paranoia is total awareness" (lol)...

Cheers.

spook · Post by **spook** » Fri May 15, 2009 6:44 am

Did i say a week? lol. Okay did some shopping today. Have tooling gel coat, polyester laminating resin, and some epoxy laminating resin, so not far away from getting started. I have to do some repairs to my cbr929 race glass, so might start with a couple of patches... well more than a couple...

Why cant inanimate things heal... Like bones do? Just throw a cover over the bike and in six weeks it's well again? I'll keep you posted. I know that my camera will probably end up stuck to a bench at some point in time and that will be the end of it

I'm not going to get too wanky with detail, just a few pixs and a little monologue, I'm sure you will all get it. Cheers

ace of spades · Post by **ace of spades** » Sun May 31, 2009 4:47 am

Why cant inanimate things heal... Like bones do? Just throw a cover over the bike and in six weeks it's well again? I'll keep you posted. I know that my camera will probably end up stuck to a bench at some point in time and that will be the end of it

Yeah I know, it sure is bad

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Probems with starting and still the accident, haha

spook · Post by **spook** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:44 am

Okay I've finally got some pic's and a crap drawing. For those of you that know your way around this stuff

For those of you that don’t... A couple of things, always wear a respirator and safety goggles or glasses. I'm not a safety zealot, however when it comes to this stuff it pays to be careful.

The glass 'is' actually glass, so once it is bound in cured resin, it becomes as deadly as asbestos. The main danger is when you are sanding or cutting cured layups. I've bought recently some zip up disposable hooded overalls, at $2.50 a pair you would be crazy not to invest in some. The glass partials can also enter the pores of the skin (hence the itching and discomfort)

The photo’s are of some repairs I did to my CBR929’s raceglass after a bit of a high side. I pretty much use the same technique for all repairs. The order of things sort of goes like this:

1/ Wash all the dirt and crap, oil, etc off the item and dry it really well. Fiberglass reinforced plastic (FRP) is hydroscopic (absorbs water) to a degree when it is broken of fractured like this, so the repair area needs to be dry.

2/ Grind out the area to be repaired. A sanding or metal grinding wheel on a 4"grinder will do the job. This does a couple of things:
Removes the damaged area (taper from zero at damage to full thickness)
Prepares the surface so the new lay-up will adhere
See below:

Next, use some alluminium tape to back up the open areas.

Cut three or four patches that start small at the deepest part of the damage and get larger until the thickness is restored.

Mix your resin (ask your shop about recommended catalyst to resin percentages....

Another caution: MEKP the catalyst used in FRP is a nasty organic substance. If you happen to get it in your eyes, you will be left blind or sight impaired before you can get to a tap to wash it out.

Use a cheap brush to work the resin into you patch pieces, lay them on top of each other until you have the desired thickness

This drawing basically shows a schematic of what I'm talking about.

And continue...lol.

Once all your repairs are done, use a jigsaw on grinder to trim edges. You may want to fill an sand the paint side. Cheers

hotcam · Post by **hotcam** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:56 am

Thanks for the info - that MEK sounds like nasty stuff.

Stig · Post by **Stig** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:03 am

any tips on building new stuff (I'm a chippy by trade so basic mould shapes would be easy) and wheres the colour and gel coats come into the equasion?

thanks for the info so far....made it sound real easy :cool

spook · Post by **spook** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:24 am

Stig wrote:any tips on building new stuff

Yep Coming

This as about as much woodwork as you could expect from me... Cheating i know... Balsa wood and superglue

I hate waiting for things to dry.

What I'm wanting to do here is make a one piece lower for the FZR genesis series, incorporating a catch tray and getting the blank back closer to the original fairing shape. Anything you can make Stig, can have a mould made from it. I'm making a whole set of raceglass, so by the end you should get the idea. I need to get a bit further down the road with it all so I can cover it in chunks that make sense... Hopefully

This will have to be a two piece mould, so hopefully it will be a little bit more interesting. Cheers.

sickle44 · Post by **sickle44** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:38 pm

Spook,

Would love to see some stuff on C-F, although I know that glass and C-F are in some ways primarily almost done the same.

Saw your respirator, I've found my eyes always end up taking a savage beating, so I think myself, despite the $300, I'm going to have to pony up for a full face kit, for the amount of work you're doing, I'd suggest the same.

Thanks for taking the time to do all these threads, I know it's a lot.

Cheers

spook · Post by **spook** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:17 pm

Your right Micheal, the process of doing carbon is pretty much identical, unless you are doing pre-preg autoclave aerospace type of work. Some of the good Ducati stuff is done that way.

The only thing I do differently is use an epoxy laminating resin (cross linked monocules) for both glass and carbon (stronger). When doing repairs as above match the resin to the piece that is broken. In most cases polyester.

Ii would be VERY interested in the full face apparatus you mentioned. Can you post a link?? Cheers

Post by **FZRDude** » Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:52 pm

http://www.gemplers.com/product/6700/3M ... 000-Series

http://shop.ebay.com/items/full%20face% ... =1&_sop=12

EXUP Worldwide

Making Fiberglass Components

Making Fiberglass Components

glass

Re: glass

FRP Repair